Unarmed combat revisited...

[reaperwolf]

Other than the skill listed on page 18 of the HOW core rulebook there's no real treatment on how to conduct punches, kicks, etc.

This got me thinking...

Unarmed Combat skill should probably provide bonus attacks as your skill bonus rises, I'm thinking 1 extra attack for every +3. Sounds about right.

So what damage? Probably less than a sling so 1d6-2 sounds about right but what about STR? If there's no Min. STR then unarmed damage from a halfling with STR 6 is the same as damage from a human with STR 18 which is all sorts of wrong.

One option is to use a sliding scale:

STR    DMG
0-1    Nil
2-3    1
4-5    1d6-4*
6-7    1d6-3*
8-9    1d6-2*
10-11    1d6-1*
12-13    1d6
14-15    1d6+1
16-17    1d6+2
18-19    etc.

*Minimum damage (before armor) is 1 point.

Wearing a gauntlet or heavy boot increases damage by +1, wearing brass knuckles or cestus +2

ARMED VS. UNARMED
Even a knife gives a fighter a significant advantage over an unarmed combatant. The armed combatant enjoys +1 Initiative vs. the unarmed opponent and receives a +1 to hit chance. An unarmed defender cannot parry or block but they can dodge. If the unarmed attacker fumbles the attack roll, the armed defender gets a free attack. For the purposes of these rules, terrors with natural attacks are considered armed.

ARMORED BRAWLING (Optional)
Armor provides twice the usual damage reduction against an unarmed attack so even leather provides 2 points of protection while punching someone wearing full plate is futile.

Kicks are significantly more powerful than punches but should be harder to execute, maybe -2 to the attack chance for +1 damage.

DIRTY TRICKS (Optional)
Eye-gouges, head-butts, etc. are all possible (provided the target has the appropriate anatomy) with a 4D/Unarmed Combat roll. If successful the attack deals +2 damage an on a critical hit stuns the target for 1d6-2 rounds (min 1 round).

I haven't playtested these yet. It would be neat if this were addressed in future printings of the HOW core rulebook or at the very least mention punch/kick on the weapon table. Again, I suggest 1d6-2, and Min STR 8.

[Deleted]

just wanted to point out...
- middle of page 14 says that you do 1 point of damage per 6 ST rounded down
(i'm especially pointing that one out because i knew it was in there somewhere but had trouble finding it. seems like it should also be listed in the weapon/damage table.)

- the Unarmed Combat skill provides bonus to hit AND damage

for me, the above rules accomplish your goals in the ARMED VS. UNARMED and ARMORED BRAWLING paragraphs - in a very simple manner. however, i can tell you like to get down into the nitty-gritty. there's nothing wrong with that.

i will be using gauntlets, heavy boots, brass knuckles, etc. though! i also like the DIRTY TRICKS when used with the p14 damage rule.

[reaperwolf]

Hrm... so a character with STR 6 does 1 point and one with 24 causes 4 points, not much of a difference there. Sure you get to add to attack and damage but even with 3 levels of Unarmed Combat a STR 12 character is still only causing 5 END/STR with a successful hit. The thing that really bothers me about this is it's so out of synch with the rest of the combat system, i.e. a die roll for damage and damage scales up every 6 instead of every +2 over the STR minimum.

Scaling damage should be factored in for Terror attacks but they're not, just look at the Giant on page 68 of the HOW book. They're 15 ft. tall, have STR 30, but only cause 2d6+2 damage (9 average) with their club. The average two-handed weapon wielder in HOW is likely to have STR 12 dealing around 3d6 damage (11 average). The Giant's STR is really only a measure of it's hit points but with DEX 9 and 2 points of armor the Giant is unlikely to survive more than 2 rounds of combat with 4 opponents.

Here's the disconnect: Following the mechanics already present in weapon tables and HOW combat rules, a giant's 1H club should be 1d6 damage +1 for two points of STR over 6 [(30-6)/2] or +12. I'm really hoping the Terrors got a thorough going-over for the bestiary book.

Yes there is a difference between applied STR for weapon attacks and overall STR for lifting/pushing/pulling/breaking things.

Something to consider.

[reaperwolf]

A side effect of unarmed damage not being rolled is a minor but important one with regards to critical hits. A static number is unchanged by rolling a 4 on an attack roll because maximum and minimum damage are identical. Only on a roll of 3 will there be an effect, i.e. x2 maximum damage.

[Deleted]

handle as you wish but i don't have a problem with the unarmed damage as written. fists and feet shouldn't be anywhere near as deadly as a dagger, in my opinion.

i wouldn't necessarily calculate the giant's club damage they way you did above (starting with a normal 1d6 club). i figure whatever club he is wielding is pretty big...and heavy. perhaps it is a small tree trunk that is 1 foot in diameter. what's the ST requirement for something like that? perhaps he doesn't quite meet the ST req so his attacks are very slow and clumsy (DX 9).

the giants and some other terrors do seem a little soft/off in the core terrors. i, too, am anxious to see how they look in the big tome.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2014 4:05:45 GMT -5 reaperwolf said:

A side effect of unarmed damage not being rolled is a minor but important one with regards to critical hits. A static number is unchanged by rolling a 4 on an attack roll because maximum and minimum damage are identical. Only on a roll of 3 will there be an effect, i.e. x2 maximum damage.

to be honest, i don't use that critical rule.

i add 1 die of damage on a 4 and 2 die on a 3. both will stun for 1d3 rounds. this fits nicely with 1pt damage per 6 ST unarmed.

[reaperwolf]

Nov 30, 2014 10:25:26 GMT -5 @ewookiereturns said:

handle as you wish but i don't have a problem with the unarmed damage as written. fists and feet shouldn't be anywhere near as deadly as a dagger, in my opinion.

i wouldn't necessarily calculate the giant's club damage they way you did above (starting with a normal 1d6 club). i figure whatever club he is wielding is pretty big...and heavy. perhaps it is a small tree trunk that is 1 foot in diameter. what's the ST requirement for something like that? perhaps he doesn't quite meet the ST req so his attacks are very slow and clumsy (DX 9).

the giants and some other terrors do seem a little soft/off in the core terrors. i, too, am anxious to see how they look in the big tome.

Agreed, the Giant's club should probably be a 3d6-1 attack with a STR minimum of around 15 or 20 but say 20 for easy math. Damage should still be around 3d6+4 or roughly 15 damage per successful attack.

As you wrote, many terrors have fairly soft attacks, likely the result of ball-parking instead of GURPS-ish design which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's nothing preventing a Referee from altering terror stats to bring 'em in line with what the PCs can handle.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2014 23:57:37 GMT -5 reaperwolf said:

As you wrote, many terrors have fairly soft attacks, likely the result of ball-parking instead of GURPS-ish design which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's nothing preventing a Referee from altering terror stats to bring 'em in line with what the PCs can handle.

agreed. i've always viewed the terrors as a starting point. to use an analogy, copy/paste text you can edit.