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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 15, 2014 0:09:06 GMT -5
As I continue to develop my setting, the Write Scroll spell caught my attention. Instead of this being an inborn ability gained at X level, or acquired as part of a feat or talent, this is a spell costing the caster 4 EN regardless of the level of spell transcribed. As presented, there's nothing preventing a wizard from taking a month from adventuring and producing 100 scrolls of varying types, unless the Judge decides to visit distractions on the enterprising Wizard.
Bear in mind I only own the HOW rulebook, there could very well be revisions, expansions, etc. contained elsewhere. I'm planning to purchase both Magi Carta and the Terrors & Treasures books once T&T is available from LuLu.
In other rpgs, scrolls are almost always disposable magic items but in HOW they're equivalent to a 6th or 7th level D&D spell! Potions are also petty magic and yet a single skill: Alchemy is used to manufacture all but healing potions, which are covered under Naturalist.
As an alternative I suggest Write Scroll is something any Wizard (and only Wizards!!) can do once they have Literacy and Craftsmanship: Calligraphy skills of 16+. The Wizard must know the spell to be cast and have 8 hours of uninterrupted time to work. The process requires expensive media such as parchment and expensive inks costing the Wizard 5% of what it normally costs to purchase the spell or 25 coins x IQ required for the spell so an IQ 8 spell would cost 200 coins. A Calligraphy roll is required, a failure simply wastes 1/2 the material costs and EN is still spent. A fumble results in the spell having some deleterious effect or the scroll is somehow cursed. A critical success will have some modest advantage and is up the individual Judges to sort out.
The scribing process requires the Wizard invest his or her personal energies into the effort, preventing the Wizard from regaining the spent EN until the scroll is read/activated. Once the scroll is used, the Wizard recovers the EN normally. This cost in terms of coins and EN prevents Wizards from taking a month vacation from adventuring and stockpiling huge quantities of scrolls.
The only problem with the above formula is it neglects to factor in the amount of EN invested in the spell can vary, and it makes sense for scrolls with more effect should cost more. Any suggestions that don't involve complex calculations? Maybe increase costs by 25% per extra amount of EN spent?
On option I considered was requiring Wizards invest their ST instead of EN into the scribing process but this would mean Wizards ENC and weapon use would be severely impacted so I abandoned the idea.
Wizards could easily sell their scrolls for roughly double what they cost to make so a IQ 8 spell could earn a Wizard 400 coins provided a buyer could be found.
These are just some ideas knocking around my head. Looking forward to reading your responses.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 1:25:27 GMT -5
some good ideas there. 250 x the IQ level of the spell (upping the cost) would help keep things in check. as the GM, if you feel like players are making too many scrolls, you can keep increasing the cost of the inks and parchment. eventually, the local shops will run out and players will have to wait for a spell (ha!). you could also say that the process of creating the scroll requires a lengthy amount of time. 1 day x the IQ level of the spell (pretty much making the EN cost of Write Scroll even more irrelevant).
you could do the same thing with alchemy. they need to have access to a laboratory of sorts to make the potions. that could be a rentable workspace in a city or a fire, pots, and vials elsewhere (extra die to test). alchemist must know the spell that the potion will contain.
critical failures on tests to create scrolls or potions are 'explosive'.
don't know. haven't really put these to the test yet. so far, i've only used alchemy to identify potions. look forward to other responses also.
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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 15, 2014 2:44:23 GMT -5
Agreed, Formulations of all kinds need some love. I've already got a similar system already roughed out and I expect the alchemist will be keen to try it out on the Monday lunchtime game at work.
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Post by ewookie_guest on Dec 15, 2014 8:32:19 GMT -5
as i drifted off to sleep, i had some thoughts about the players that get too greedy with a _make potion/scroll_sell_profit scheme. i guess these fall under the 'visit distractions upon them' category.
- they are paid a 'friendly' visit by the local potion/scroll 'cartel' and coerced to stop or pay 'protection money'
- they are visited by the local constabulary and asked to produce their license to sell such ware within city limits. no license? uh oh.
these things could turn into fun mini-adventures.
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Post by buzzclaw on Dec 15, 2014 19:33:57 GMT -5
An alternative way to put a stop to scroll-makers is to make them pass an hourly 3/DX test (with +1 for each consecutive hourly spent writing) or contract hand cramps :v
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Post by ewookie_guest on Dec 15, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5
An alternative way to put a stop to scroll-makers is to make them pass an hourly 3/DX test (with +1 for each consecutive hourly spent writing) or contract hand cramps :v clever. not sure i'd want to play it out on a hour by hour basis. then again, i doubt the player or his comrades would either...philip j. fry says, 'hmmm...'. so how many hours to make one scroll? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 22:06:28 GMT -5
so how many hours to make one scroll? hours = IQ of spell being scrolled? |
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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 16, 2014 1:29:33 GMT -5
so how many hours to make one scroll? hours = IQ of spell being scrolled? Meaning an IQ 8 spell, the equivalent to a cantrip in most games, would take 8 hours but an IQ 18 several days. It's simple and does account for hours spent illuminating and meticulously inscribing. I like it. |
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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 16, 2014 1:38:01 GMT -5
some good ideas there. 250 x the IQ level of the spell (upping the cost) would help keep things in check. Hrm... that's really high. The scaling I was looking at was how does a scroll compare in cost and utility to the most common battlefield item: the broadsword. An IQ 8 spell using what I outlined was 200 coins which I believe is 50 coins more expensive than a broadsword. I can't verify, I loaned my copy of HOW to a coworker. She's never adventure roleplayed before and she's fascinated after a single 30 minute session. On the other hand 25 coins x 18 is 450 which is a really cheap, if purchased by a character from another Wizard, the scroll would only cost 900 coins. Hrm... This also still doesn't account for variable EN spells like lightning which can be beefed up by spending more EN. I was thinking the cost goes up by 50% for each increment of EN spent. Need to revisit scribe scroll this week. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 5:28:37 GMT -5
some good ideas there. 250 x the IQ level of the spell (upping the cost) would help keep things in check. Hrm... that's really high. The scaling I was looking at was how does a scroll compare in cost and utility to the most common battlefield item: the broadsword. An IQ 8 spell using what I outlined was 200 coins which I believe is 50 coins more expensive than a broadsword. I can't verify, I loaned my copy of HOW to a coworker. She's never adventure roleplayed before and she's fascinated after a single 30 minute session. On the other hand 25 coins x 18 is 450 which is a really cheap, if purchased by a character from another Wizard, the scroll would only cost 900 coins. Hrm... This also still doesn't account for variable EN spells like lightning which can be beefed up by spending more EN. I was thinking the cost goes up by 50% for each increment of EN spent. Need to revisit scribe scroll this week. i was going by p.83 which states that 'The coin value [of a scroll] is equal 500 x the IQ level of the spell'. i thought i was being generous! note where i added bold. you're comparing the cost of a commonplace item with the cost of a supposedly rare item. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 5:50:22 GMT -5
hours = IQ of spell being scrolled? Meaning an IQ 8 spell, the equivalent to a cantrip in most games, would take 8 hours but an IQ 18 several days. It's simple and does account for hours spent illuminating and meticulously inscribing. I like it. i'm still undecided on all of it. i dread having to 'role-play' it all out, even though player misbehavior could lead to interesting adventure. i'm tempted to just say 'you wanna make a scroll? spend XP equal to IQ level of the spell on the scroll' plus the additional EN cost, provided they have parchment. it's magic, so the scroll is completed in a flash. |
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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 16, 2014 12:00:08 GMT -5
Hrm... that's really high. The scaling I was looking at was how does a scroll compare in cost and utility to the most common battlefield item: the broadsword. An IQ 8 spell using what I outlined was 200 coins which I believe is 50 coins more expensive than a broadsword. I can't verify, I loaned my copy of HOW to a coworker. She's never adventure roleplayed before and she's fascinated after a single 30 minute session. On the other hand 25 coins x 18 is 450 which is a really cheap, if purchased by a character from another Wizard, the scroll would only cost 900 coins. Hrm... This also still doesn't account for variable EN spells like lightning which can be beefed up by spending more EN. I was thinking the cost goes up by 50% for each increment of EN spent. Need to revisit scribe scroll this week. i was going by p.83 which states that 'The coin value [of a scroll] is equal 500 x the IQ level of the spell'. i thought i was being generous! note where i added bold. you're comparing the cost of a commonplace item with the cost of a supposedly rare item. In my fantasy setting, potions and scrolls are as "common" as magic gets but players won't be lugging around dozens of 'em like Link at the end of a Zelda game. It's a matter of perspective. Players can expect to have 2-3 on hand and among the party. I am planning to put the kaibosh on consuming multiple duration based potions sort of like the potion miscibility rules from the AD&D 1e DMG using 3d6 +1d6 for each potion beyond 2 so if you character drank and was under the influence of a potion of assist, fire resistance and spider climb you'd roll 4d6 and suffer the consequences. On a roll of 4 maybe one of the potions becomes permanent, otherwise a character can expect discomfort, injury, death, maybe magical mutation on a roll of 18+ |
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Post by reaperwolf on Dec 16, 2014 12:07:23 GMT -5
Meaning an IQ 8 spell, the equivalent to a cantrip in most games, would take 8 hours but an IQ 18 several days. It's simple and does account for hours spent illuminating and meticulously inscribing. I like it. i'm still undecided on all of it. i dread having to 'role-play' it all out, even though player misbehavior could lead to interesting adventure. i'm tempted to just say 'you wanna make a scroll? spend XP equal to IQ level of the spell on the scroll' plus the additional EN cost, provided they have parchment. it's magic, so the scroll is completed in a flash. Spending precious XP on a one-shot temporary item seems so futile and ill-advised to me. There's a reason Pathfinder dumped the XP to make magic items requirement even though there is a precedence for it in fantasy fiction, such as the One Ring from Lord of the Rings. Sauron poured all of his cruelty, hatred, and ambition into the artifact, this left him diminished but over time he rebuilt his strength. Had Sauron reacquired the One Ring he would have doubled his power. Potions and scrolls are unlikely to have the same effect so a temporary one-shot resources isn't worth the XP. That's my take on it at least. As in all things, a matter of perspective. For my own games, potions and scrolls will be uncommon and limited resources, they'll take time, expertise, and materials. If a player wants to invest in an Enchanting (IQ) skill then I'll probably implement some sort of spend XP to permanently anchor the magic within the item. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 13:54:45 GMT -5
i'm still undecided on all of it. i dread having to 'role-play' it all out, even though player misbehavior could lead to interesting adventure. i'm tempted to just say 'you wanna make a scroll? spend XP equal to IQ level of the spell on the scroll' plus the additional EN cost, provided they have parchment. it's magic, so the scroll is completed in a flash. Spending precious XP on a one-shot temporary item seems so futile and ill-advised to me. There's a reason Pathfinder dumped the XP to make magic items requirement even though there is a precedence for it in fantasy fiction, such as the One Ring from Lord of the Rings. Sauron poured all of his cruelty, hatred, and ambition into the artifact, this left him diminished but over time he rebuilt his strength. Had Sauron reacquired the One Ring he would have doubled his power. Potions and scrolls are unlikely to have the same effect so a temporary one-shot resources isn't worth the XP. That's my take on it at least. As in all things, a matter of perspective. For my own games, potions and scrolls will be uncommon and limited resources, they'll take time, expertise, and materials. If a player wants to invest in an Enchanting (IQ) skill then I'll probably implement some sort of spend XP to permanently anchor the magic within the item. that was my take as well. 8 to 18 XP is not earth-shattering amounts of XP (using official XP rules). still, it is enough to discourage abuse of the Write Scroll spell and provides a very good reason why they'd be uncommon, limited resources. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:04:52 GMT -5
i was going by p.83 which states that 'The coin value [of a scroll] is equal 500 x the IQ level of the spell'. i thought i was being generous! note where i added bold. you're comparing the cost of a commonplace item with the cost of a supposedly rare item. In my fantasy setting, potions and scrolls are as "common" as magic gets but players won't be lugging around dozens of 'em like Link at the end of a Zelda game. It's a matter of perspective. Players can expect to have 2-3 on hand and among the party. I am planning to put the kaibosh on consuming multiple duration based potions sort of like the potion miscibility rules from the AD&D 1e DMG using 3d6 +1d6 for each potion beyond 2 so if you character drank and was under the influence of a potion of assist, fire resistance and spider climb you'd roll 4d6 and suffer the consequences. On a roll of 4 maybe one of the potions becomes permanent, otherwise a character can expect discomfort, injury, death, maybe magical mutation on a roll of 18+ you said yourself in a post above that potions and scrolls will be uncommon, limited resources. while they might be more common than permanent magic items, they would still be less common than broadswords. i stand by original post. i never played any zelda games after Link to the Past on SNES. not sure what happened in the franchise after that, but in zelda 1, 2, and 3 (LttP), link could only hold 1 scroll (really a letter he couldn't actually use) and 1 to 3 potions. the potions were only sold at a couple of select shops and they were not cheap. in other words, they were rare. |
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