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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 22:11:21 GMT -5
Armor is only useful when you have a high DX. Otherwise, your attacking ability sucks.
...but if you have a high DX, why not Dodge (or Parry or Shield Block) and negate ALL damage?
so you lose movement on the next turn. why would you want to run away when you can kick the opponents arse instead?
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Post by mabon5127 on Nov 20, 2013 21:21:27 GMT -5
Armor is only useful when you have a high DX. Otherwise, your attacking ability sucks. ...but if you have a high DX, why not Dodge (or Parry or Shield Block) and negate ALL damage? so you lose movement on the next turn. why would you want to run away when you can kick the opponents arse instead? Cuz you can only react to one attack per round and you have to be aware of that attack. Reacting glues you to one spot. Armor works even when you miss your reaction roll. Although I agree that armor nerfs your fighting ability a bit too much.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:21:44 GMT -5
try playing without armor. when a character is evenly matched, Dodge, Parry, or Shield Block. When a character is outnumbered, Counterstrike instead and focus all of your attacks on one foe until he's dead (preferably the one most likely to hit you, ie. highest DX but take highest potential damage into consideration too)...
basically, dodge when the odds are even and if they aren't even, focus on making them even.
EDIT: when i say 'armor' i really mean heavy, metal armor. cloth, leather, shield are all good.
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Post by sirgawain on Nov 30, 2013 16:32:43 GMT -5
I think I might modify my alternate armor chart (Cauldron #1) to reduce the DX penalty further, but I need to experiment more. I still think ST actually needs more overall importance to even out with DX.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 18:19:24 GMT -5
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Post by sirgawain on Nov 30, 2013 21:14:09 GMT -5
Hmmm...I'll have to play around with the numbers, but I think you're on to something with the combination of DX and MV loss instead of just DX. My chart also involves certain types of weapons being better (more damage) vs. certain types of armor, so I have to factor that in to my statistics. Gives me a good starting point either way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 23:44:57 GMT -5
Hmmm...I'll have to play around with the numbers, but I think you're on to something with the combination of DX and MV loss instead of just DX. My chart also involves certain types of weapons being better (more damage) vs. certain types of armor, so I have to factor that in to my statistics. Gives me a good starting point either way. that was actually mabon's/morgan's idea...and it doesn't really make sense to me. in fact, none of these rule-making attempts to make armor less cumbersome make sense to me. heavy, metal armor should be...heavy. the answer is to build up weapon skill to off-set the DX penalty or put more in DX to begin with. armor SHOULD hurt your chances of Dodging. use Parry instead. low-level characters shouldn't be using heavy armor. it's really that simple. weapon vs. armor charts make sense to me...but they don't make fun to me...it would be more tedious than recalculating DX penalties when weapons change.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 23:57:58 GMT -5
Doctor: Does wearing heavy armor hurt your ability to Dodge and attack? Patient: Yes, doc, it does. Doctor: Then don't do it.
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Post by mabon5127 on Dec 1, 2013 10:26:00 GMT -5
Hmmm...I'll have to play around with the numbers, but I think you're on to something with the combination of DX and MV loss instead of just DX. My chart also involves certain types of weapons being better (more damage) vs. certain types of armor, so I have to factor that in to my statistics. Gives me a good starting point either way. Actually, armor slows your MV already as adj DX is used to figure MV. I think. The rules are not with me.
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Post by sirgawain on Dec 1, 2013 10:59:44 GMT -5
We're in agreement that the heavy armors (chain mail/half plate/full plate) should be heavy and cumbersome. No fighting that logic. It just looked like an idea to try, nothing more.
My redesigned weapon and armor charts were created to offset what I perceived as an imbalance between ST and the other attributes. Most of my players realize the importance of DX when fighting, and it was non-existent to have a character higher than 14 ST in my early games. So I'm always looking for solutions to reward those with high ST.
I can see where the charts would be a pain, but I enjoy them. I use the game system as a tactical fighting game with miniatures and hex maps. For a role-player, it might not be as fun.
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Post by sirgawain on Dec 1, 2013 11:03:01 GMT -5
You're right. It's on pg. 36. Scratch that idea.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 14:08:44 GMT -5
You're right. It's on pg. 36. Scratch that idea. that's why it didn't make sense to me.
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Post by mabon5127 on Dec 1, 2013 14:36:44 GMT -5
You're right. It's on pg. 36. Scratch that idea. that's why it didn't make sense to me. Glad I could clear that up!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 1:53:48 GMT -5
My redesigned weapon and armor charts were created to offset what I perceived as an imbalance between ST and the other attributes. Most of my players realize the importance of DX when fighting, and it was non-existent to have a character higher than 14 ST in my early games. So I'm always looking for solutions to reward those with high ST. I can see where the charts would be a pain, but I enjoy them. I use the game system as a tactical fighting game with miniatures and hex maps. For a role-player, it might not be as fun. i'm not a role-player either. i use a virtual tabletop instead of miniatures. i really enjoy the tactical aspect of the game. i just hate bogging down play with table and chart look-ups. as far as rewarding ST goes, i do agree that ST is given less weight in HOW than in LAW because of the lowered weapon requirements, introduction of EN, and the different grappling rules. i do like the optional rule about ST giving a damage bonus when a character exceeds the STRQ for the weapon (that's on page 36 also)
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Post by sirgawain on Dec 2, 2013 9:56:33 GMT -5
The grappling rules are different? I thought they weren't changed between the two games. I'd better look that up.
The ST damage increase is pretty much a standard rule in my games. I also allow characters to use any weapon they can get their hands on, but my minimum ST requirements are higher than HOW's and I subtract 2 points of damage for every point their ST is below the minimum.
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