Trimming/condensing the skill list...

[reaperwolf]

Anybody tinkered with the skill list? There's room for a little pruning to avoid crossovers and table-strife caused by the rigid limit on number of skill + spells a character limited by IQ (which like all Attributes RAW can't be raised but I'll address that in another thread).

To me the most obvious choices are:

Athletics and Climbing, roll Climbing right Athletics and allow Acrobatics to climb as well.
Craftsman and Profession and call it Profession or Trade. You don't know how to make horseshoes without knowing how to sell the goods you make.
Detect Hidden/Hide and Stealth, when a character sneaks up on another having two skills means two chances for failure. Better to roll 'em into a single skill called Stealth and move Detect Hidden into Alertness.
Merchant and Recognize Value, call it Merchant.
Hunting/Trapping, Fishing, and Survival call it Survival or Roughing It.
Charm, Diplomacy, and Detect Tell/Lies as a single skill Influence or Manipulation. Which occurs to me, there's no Intimidate or Taunt skill.

This significantly cuts down on the number of skills.

'Course a few activities come to mind:

Teamster (DX or IQ): Operate two and four wheeled conveyances (DX), as well as the care and handling of dray-beasts and stowing/transporting cargo (IQ). This skill would also see use using any vehicle pulled by beasts such as a ice-sled pulled by a team of dogs or a sleigh pulled by reindeer.

Perform (IQ): Performance arts, pick one of the following: dance, poetry, musicianship (by instrument type: percussion, woodwind, string, etc.), singing, comedy, juggling, etc. The skill can be taken multiple times each time selecting a different performance art.

Long skill lists are fine provided there isn't a rigid limit on the number of skills and spells one can possess. Something to think about for campaign play, even Wizards with obscenely high IQ will only have 18 skills + spells.

[ewookie_guest]

Long skill lists are fine provided there isn't a rigid limit on the number of skills and spells one can possess. Something to think about for campaign play, even Wizards with obscenely high IQ will only have 18 skills + spells.

i don't see the problem with this. 18 skills + spells is helluva lot of skills and spells. i wonder if you are confusing 'skills and spells' with 'skill and spell levels'

i really disagree with everything in the above post, but it's your game.

i'm anxious to see how you address the inability to raise attributes. i may like it better than mine. basically, you can increase attributes (in my games). the cost is current ST+DX+IQ+EN times 100. so, for starting characters, it would cost 420XP to increase a stat. next time, it costs 430XP. next, 440XP. etc.

[ewookie_guest]

^ 50 point (ST+DX+IQ+EN) maximum

[reaperwolf]

Dec 14, 2014 20:23:18 GMT -5 ewookie_guest said:

Long skill lists are fine provided there isn't a rigid limit on the number of skills and spells one can possess. Something to think about for campaign play, even Wizards with obscenely high IQ will only have 18 skills + spells.

i don't see the problem with this. 18 skills + spells is helluva lot of skills and spells. i wonder if you are confusing 'skills and spells' with 'skill and spell levels'

i really disagree with everything in the above post, but it's your game.

i'm anxious to see how you address the inability to raise attributes. i may like it better than mine. basically, you can increase attributes (in my games). the cost is current ST+DX+IQ+EN times 100. so, for starting characters, it would cost 420XP to increase a stat. next time, it costs 430XP. next, 440XP. etc.

Nope, not confused at least don't think so. If your wizard has an IQ of 15 and he/she has 10 spells that leaves at most 5 skills before all the slots are filled, correct?

As for raising Attributes, I've been thinking 500 or 1000 x new level. Very costly but considering the cascade effect of raising an Attribute feels about right.

The skill list seems lopsided, some very general like Athletics then very specific like Climbing. Craftsmanship and Professional are probably the biggest offenders as there's overlap even in the descriptions.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2014 21:20:19 GMT -5 reaperwolf said:

Dec 14, 2014 20:23:18 GMT -5 ewookie_guest said:

i don't see the problem with this. 18 skills + spells is helluva lot of skills and spells. i wonder if you are confusing 'skills and spells' with 'skill and spell levels'

i really disagree with everything in the above post, but it's your game.

i'm anxious to see how you address the inability to raise attributes. i may like it better than mine. basically, you can increase attributes (in my games). the cost is current ST+DX+IQ+EN times 100. so, for starting characters, it would cost 420XP to increase a stat. next time, it costs 430XP. next, 440XP. etc.

Nope, not confused at least don't think so. If your wizard has an IQ of 15 and he/she has 10 spells that leaves at most 5 skills before all the slots are filled, correct?

As for raising Attributes, I've been thinking 500 or 1000 x new level. Very costly but considering the cascade effect of raising an Attribute feels about right.

The skill list seems lopsided, some very general like Athletics then very specific like Climbing. Craftsmanship and Professional are probably the biggest offenders as there's overlap even in the descriptions.

i guess i didn't totally disagree with you Craft / Profession would definitely be better consolidated into Trade (or similar name). i still disagree on the other skills/points. stealth implies the ability to sneak up on someone. hide implies the ability to cower in fear and not be noticed. there are subtle differences between them all. even a situation where they overlap, you wouldn't roll against both of them. the GM picks the one that seems most relevant. if neither seems more relevant than the other, let the player roll against the highest one (assuming he would want to).

[Deleted]

As for raising Attributes, I've been thinking 500 or 1000 x new level. Very costly but considering the cascade effect of raising an Attribute feels about right.

it's so costly, i can't imagine anyone would ever save up enough to do it - even at 500. to go from ST8 to ST9 would cost (9 * 500 =) 4500! how much do skill levels cost in your world? kidding aside, given that you give out 10 points of skills/spells to starting characters (stated in another thread), i can actually see where players in your world would hit the +6 ceiling and start saving for attribute buffs. i guess you skip low-level adventures and start your friends off at mid-level adventures.

[Deleted]

i guess you're gonna 'like' this one too

'trimming/condensing skill list' i strongly disagree with that.

as previously stated, i agree with you on Craft / Profession.

as previously stated, i disagree with you on Hide / Stealth.

recognize value / merchant - disagree
refer you to here heroworlds.proboards.com/thread/47/clean-skills

hunting/trapping and fishing and survival
hunters/trapper aren't necessarily skilled at fishing. survival implies foraging for edible plants, shrooms, etc.

Charm, Diplomacy, and Detect Tell/Lies as a single skill Influence or Manipulation. Which occurs to me, there's no Intimidate or Taunt skill

no no no. they're all different and used in different situations. there may be some overlap in certain situations but that's up to the GM to decide which one is more relevant. a 'Charm'-ing socialite wouldn't necessarily be able to diffuse a tense situation during negotiations and prevent a war. neither would he be able to tell if a witness to a crime is lying.

Intimidate and Taunt...are...um...completely fanciful fluff. how does a halfling intimidate a bugbear? lol
Taunt? "Hey, Mr. Orc! Your mamma was so fat...when she wore high-heels, she struck gold!"
in a bar-room scene, if you want to provoke someone to attack so that they get arrested, just make a contested IQ roll.

Athletics and Acrobatics. again, they're just different.